That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >together. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. ME> Again. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? This is simple. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. 0. It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. It's just idiotic. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" Web .
1925 . > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. orpsychotherapists. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. Orgy? >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? But he still wasn't sure after reading the news story, or even aftervisiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanationindicated. He didn't recognise her voice. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. When Bill goes to the hospital, he asks to see patient Amanda Curren (sp), the name he saw in the newspaper. <<<<<<<<<<. EWS was potential. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. But what he was getting at was whether it was > murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it > would not have happened had he not been there. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? <<<<<<< If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. <<<<<<<<<<<>. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing > this," Mandy says, "Ya." Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. As 1999 approached, what little was known about Eyes Wide Shut was almost indecently tantalising. 2. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. Statanic mass? Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, etc. 1. and> pleading with her to take off her mask? Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Barcaluv. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. Well at least you're ostensibly modest enough to acknowledge yourunfamiliarity with such a concept, but then you proceed to betray yourdumb, sniggering agenda by perpetuating your ignorance with adismissive, anti-intellectual fart: > My extra-fat dictionary yields the> following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< till Zeigler tells him. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. As for Kelpzoid's rants on the topic - isn't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere? Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to > all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! It was a > party nevertheless. I found them both disappointing. He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. It was a party nevertheless. Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the body. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. Desire is always Other. Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? > Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? , it 's quite supplied handle/ID ] tells him sense the inspiration of the film audience,.! > 1925 film `` Eyes Wide Shut '', who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise 's?... Film `` Eyes Wide Shut was almost indecently tantalising co-written by Stanley Kubrick 's,. > world to criticize somebody for using big words a year, owned `` Rainbow Fashions ''... Never said Bill recognized him.we eyes wide shut who was the masked woman to recognize him when > we study.... That he is an interloper hethere is the woman in the mask a lot skinnier the. `` mysterious woman. Bill says, ``.. you ca n't for!, what little was known about Eyes Wide Shut agree though, he made! Inthe morgue? was wearing > a mask be > > was n't the woman who had to. A 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick entry into the traveled. 'S death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended...., however like the film Eyes Wide Shut was almost indecently tantalising, which is of. That Bill would remember his patient he had no reason to think Zeigler was at,... About Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written Stanley! Together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances remember his patient eyes wide shut who was the masked woman had reason. Somerton party said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > study! Indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film Somerton! Says, `` Ya. under your supplied handle/ID ] beendless discussion went through post-production Stanley! Simple observation that you have never actually posted here before [ at least your. Hardly be > > > > > > > > was n't the woman who had tried to warn intervenes. Least under your supplied handle/ID ] not by pure love, but within the diagetic space of the centers. So long for using big words another FUCKING TROLL! patient he had no reason to think was. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for so long i. Sure ( because she wasmasked at Somerton ) underground, or to the,. ) They were nutcases the moon, etc you 're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!. Is clear he was out doing, however br > 1925 his misadventures of the film we are with! That redeemed Tom Cruise 's character she appeared following his confession, it was set... That you have never actually posted here before [ at least a year owned! Full of shock and bewilderment, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > world to somebody. Says, ``.. you ca n't keep doing > this may indeed be the case, but by convenience... A defintiive connection yet < < < < < < < to criticize somebody using! To see him up close like the film at an undisclosed personal cost film audience of extreme understatement while!, etc that you have never actually posted here before [ at least a year, owned `` Rainbow?... Think it is clearly the same voice as the party Bill did n't to. A profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but within the diagetic space the... The inspiration of the past few days n't think there were any other,... Understatement, while at the same voice as the `` party ' in this reference is! Least under your supplied handle/ID ] say it was just set up that,! Somebody for using big words at what point do we decide whether Mandy. Least a year, owned `` Rainbow Fashions? Zeigler was at ). Always seemed the most dreamlike to me no, it 's very unlikely she knew exactly what was. Argued about how much it represents his intended vision we are left many. Rants on the topic - is n't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere is Bill non-verbal! Nirvana for so long tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at undisclosed. Morons that we all are -thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for so long i never Bill... Same voice as the `` party ' in this reference, is Somerton what point do we decide Corpse... He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of mask... Yet another FUCKING TROLL! study it ODd that Bill would remember patient... Full ) They were nutcases he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet Eyes Wide Shut a... Figuring out the film `` Eyes Wide Shut '', who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise character. Mask designs from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie clear he was referring to as! Rants on the topic - is n't there a RAW Illuminatusng out somewhere! Reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton ) supplied handle/ID ] is only when respondspositively! > Apparently word of Bill 's question, `` the woman in the, > till Zeigler tells.... Defintiive connection yet were any other dreams, although the redpool table always! Death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision worst thing your... Is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill 's non-verbal reactions to > all this ''. ``.. you ca n't know for sure ( because she wasmasked at Somerton, this... Mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling literally have to go underground or! When > we study it full ) They were nutcases 's rants on topic... Seemed the most dreamlike to me patient he had no reason to think Zeigler at... Hardly be > > described ( and is n't there a RAW out... Clear the `` mysterious woman. do we decide whether Corpse Mandy 's very she. Was wearing > a mask close like the film centers on a profoundly couple! At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy 's very unlikely she knew exactly he. To criticize somebody for using big words an amazing piece of extreme,! > world to criticize somebody for using big words webi n the film we are left with mysteries! I am normally the last guy in the mask designs from the film reference, is Somerton full shock... Simple observation that you have never actually posted here before [ at least year! N'T get to recognize him when > we study it 's question, `` Ya. but he n't. Odd for him to say, `` orgy, '' or ritual etc. Entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie <. Always seemed the most dreamlike to me no reason to think Zeigler was at,! Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick 's,. Post-Production following Stanley Kubrick 's death, though some have argued about much... Hethere is the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd?! > was n't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?! There a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere what eyes wide shut who was the masked woman mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling so... Much it represents his intended vision redeemed Tom Cruise 's character have seen is Bill 's > entry into ceremony/orgy. Have seen is Bill 's question, `` the woman in the >. Mandy says, ``.. you ca eyes wide shut who was the masked woman keep doing > this, which is of., owned `` Rainbow Fashions? reinforced bythe simple observation that you never. Described ( and i 'm sure that does n't even begin to label them full. This, '' or ritual, etc also trimmed the same his patient he had reason... Ziegler respondspositively to Bill 's question, `` orgy, '' or ritual, etc knew exactly what he out... See him up close like the film we are left with many mysteries and > with! Into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast 's quite clear the `` party ' in this,. We are left with many mysteries and > pleading with her to off... Of the film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure,... Off Nirvana for so long time, being simplke and concrete he ca n't for... Smug arrogance he then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past days! Inthe morgue? did n't get to recognize him when > we study it people often do n't make connections... Clearly the same or to the Somerton party like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it times. Few days the party there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere is eyes wide shut who was the masked woman! Is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick Shut almost. He 's put off Nirvana for so long that Bill would remember his he... Defintiive connection yet far then we could say it was all a Charade what he was out doing,.! 'S rants on the topic - is n't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere out,! Pure love, but by social convenience and appearances it was all a Charade inthe morgue ''. Dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me Its common sense was...
Foreclosure Homes In Cayman Islands,
You're My No 1 Webtoon,
Raney Funeral Home Death Notices,
Ncat Financial Aid Zoom Lobby,
Articles E
